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WW 2.19 with Brightspace LTI 1.3

Re: WW 2.19 with Brightspace LTI 1.3

by Alex Jordan -
Number of replies: 3

That has to do with how LTI 1.3 works compared with LTI 1.1. With LTI 1.3, one single user (in the case of D2L it can be the instructor) using an LTI link is all that is needed for WW to have the data it needs to send grades for that set. And it just sends it all, if using LTI 1.3 and WW 2.18. With LTI 1.1, the data needed was a combination of the set and user and each user needed to use the link before grade pass back could happen. So that old behavior was by necessity.

With version 2.20, there will be fine controls for grade pass back. For just one of many possibilities, you could set it up so grades only pass back after a close date or if a student reaches 90%. Another option is to only pass grades once a student makes their first attempt. Etc.

In reply to Alex Jordan

Re: WW 2.19 with Brightspace LTI 1.3

by Brittni Lorton -

Hi Alex,

I see. Thanks for clarifying. This is quite problematic for us, I had no idea that was how this was set up. When I was reading the documentation, I was under the impression that the grade passback would not happen until the student had clicked the link. Reading here: https://webwork.maa.org/wiki/LTI_Authentication_(for_WeBWorK_2.18_or_newer) it specifies that "Students must click on a link corresponding to an assignment at least once for grade pass back to work." But it seems you are saying that is not the case. And that if ONE student clicks the link it passes grades back for ALL students?!?

Is there no workaround for this? Is there a way to re-set it so that 'no one' has clicked the link, even an instructor? So that way we don't have to live with an entire gradebook filled with zeros right from the start of the semester? 

In reply to Brittni Lorton

Re: WW 2.19 with Brightspace LTI 1.3

by Alex Jordan -

Maybe someone will be able to tell you something that I am overlooking. But here are some thoughts.

  • I think that the portion of the wiki page you see there just didn't get updated for LTI 1.3, and what that portion always said for LTI 1.1 remains. But it's not quite right regarding LTI 1.3.
  • Do you have `$LTICheckPrior` set to 1 in authen_LTI.conf? If that is set to 1, then in my experience with D2L, the initial empty score for the assignment in D2L is considered equivalent to a 0 score. So a student's WeBWorK score being 0 will mean that student's score is not updated for D2L, and the blank score is not replaced with a 0. Then the problem becomes something else: a student who doesn't to the assignment at all, even up to the close date, will not get their score updated in D2L. So when a close date happens, you need to manually put 0s into D2L for those students.
  • Once the grades are in D2L as 0s, I don't know how to clear them except manually clearing them using the Grades tool. Or I guess you could completely remove the External Learning Tool links and then the associated grade items, and re-create them.
  • Grades are only ever passed back for sets that have passed their open date. If you have the entire semester's sets open from the start of the semester, the grades for all of them get sent to the LMS. And mostly as 0s since most students haven't started most WeBWorK assignments yet (unless $LTICheckPrior is set as mentioned above). If you change your sets to open later, say in batches on a weekly basis, this will be reflected in the grade passback as time goes by.
  • You could consider hiding these grade items in D2L, and manually unhide them as the weeks go by. And also consider manually making changes in Manage Grades each week, updating how students' overall grades are calculated.
  • You could revert to using LTI 1.1 and get the behavior that you used to have.
  • If you are adventurous, you or your WeBWorK admin (if that is not you) could apply the changes that were made for 2.20 that I previously mentioned. These changes are here:
    https://github.com/openwebwork/webwork2/pull/2617
    I would not recommend this unless a person knows what they are doing well with git. I can't promise that this would work out well without also bringing in other changes that have gone into version 2.20.



In reply to Alex Jordan

Re: WW 2.19 with Brightspace LTI 1.3

by Danny Glin -

A couple of things to add:

  • I updated the wiki to reflect the different behaviours for LTI 1.1 and 1.3.  I hope that it is clear now.
  • I don't recommend reverting to LTI 1.1. It is considered deprecated, and at some point Desire2Learn (and other commercial learning management systems) will stop supporting it.
  • At our institution we do what Alex suggested: hide grade items from students in D2L until they are complete.
  • In D2L you can configure how blank scores are treated.  If you have "Treat ungraded items as 0" selected, then you don't need to manually fill in 0 for blank scores.  Unfortunately this setting is at the course level, so you can't do it for just WeBWorK assignments.