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content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Andras Balogh -
Number of replies: 7

We are switching to Brightspace from Blackboard. 

I was able to link a WeBWorK course to a Brighspace course using both manual link and content selection.

It seems to me that the manual link can link multiple Brightspace courses/sections to the same WeBWorK course.

Using content selection I tried to add two different LMS Context IDs separated by commas in a WeBWorK course, but that does not seem to work. Is it possible to use content selection in two Brightspace course from on WeBWorK course?


In reply to Andras Balogh

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Glenn Rice -

No, that is not supported.  Grade passback can only possibly work right if one LMS course is linked.  This is because each course in the LMS has a different link for sending grades back for a particular assignment.  So if we tried to implement it so that multiple LMS courses could be linked to one WeBWorK course, then if one user signs in then grades will be set to go to that users LMS course.  But now if a user from the other course signs in then it will switch it to send grades to the second users LMS course.  Now if the first user submits answers, the grade gets passed back to the LMS course of the second user.

In reply to Glenn Rice

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Andras Balogh -
So even the manual link will not work from Brightspace?

I am pretty sure that with Blackboard we have been using multiple sections in one WeBWorK course with grade pass back.
In reply to Andras Balogh

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Alex Jordan -

If you *only* care about single sign-on (and not grade passback), then links from multiple D2L courses that each point to the same WeBWorK course will work for that purpose. It won't matter if you created all those links manually, or if you used the content item selection tool in one course, changed the LMS content ID in the WW course, and then used content item selection in a different D2L course. Or a mix of manual link creation and content item selection link creation.

But grade passback will not work reliably. The way it's all built right now, the WeBWorK course is only "aware" of the most recent LMS course that was used by a user to enter the WW course. If you are under the impression that grade passback has been working with multiple Blackboard courses linking to one WeBWorK course, it's probably a misunderstanding where there are frequent enough logins to the WW course from each of the LMS courses, such that grade passback is eventually getting through for each LMS course. But even then, I would question if the last batches of grades from the last day or so of the term are all getting through to all of the LMS courses.

In theory we could redesign things for this to work. One possibility would be to add things like "lms-course", "lms-course-user", "lms-course-set", and "lms-course-set-user" tables to the database to have all the right things recorded to be used under all the right circumstances. It would include things like sending your (the instructor's) grades to all of the LMS courses you are associated with. But even if that idea is theoretically workable, it would take some work to make it happen.

I use D2L at my school too, and for any situation where it seems like maybe I would want two D2L courses linking to one WW course, I just ask the D2L admins to cross-list the two D2L courses. I end up with one D2L course shell that has two sections of students. I find it much more convenient to only have one D2L course to manage and update as the term progresses. Is that a workable solution for your situation?

In reply to Alex Jordan

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Andras Balogh -
Thank you for the clarification.
I think the frequent logins definitely suggested correct grade pass back to me, and also the fact that the different sections were identified correctly in WeBWorK. I understand now that recording the sections does not mean the grade pass back works correctly.

Can instructors trigger grade pass back by using the links?

This is D2L question then and not specific to WeBWorK, but since I am new to D2L I would rather ask it here than search for it somewhere else: Can different sections in the same D2L course have different individual assignments (for example linked to the same WeBWorK course)? Can announcements be separated by sections in the same D2L course?
In reply to Andras Balogh

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Alex Jordan -
> Can instructors trigger grade pass back by using the links?

What matters is that the WeBWorK course only knows the LMS ID for most recently used LMS course. So if you enter WeBWorK from LMS course A, and quickly go to the LTI Grade Update tool and use it before anyone enters the WeBWorK course from LMS course B, then all grades from the WW course will be sent to LMS course A. Many of them might not make sense for LMS course A and should be harmlessly ignored.

If you are relying on LTI grades to be sent upon each student submission, or upon the mass update interval, that's where things could become unreliable.

In D2L, almost everything I can think of can be tied to release conditions. Including Content modules, Assignments, Quizzes, Intelligent Agents, and Announcements. There is a release condition you can use about which section a user is enrolled in, so I think the answer to your last questions is yes. For links to individual WeBWorK assignments, you would put the release condition on the Content module, Assignment, Quiz, or whatever is the thing where you planted the WeBWorK link.
In reply to Alex Jordan

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Andras Balogh -
Thank you very much!

In addition to one graded WeBWorK connection to a given D2L course, can we also create additional ungraded LTI links to other WeBWorK courses from the D2L course that will not affect grading from the first connection?
In reply to Andras Balogh

Re: content selection from two Brightspace courses into one WeBWorK course

by Alex Jordan -
One thing I've come to appreciate is that the term "link" is confusing with all of this, at least in D2L. In D2L, you create "External Learning Tools". You either create them manually, or they are created automatically when using the content item selection tool. They are higher level things than the links that a student actually clicks on in the end.

Once an ELT exists, then you can place links that use that ELT. For example, in Content, in a D2L Assignment, in a navbar, etc. Again you could do this manually (by selecting External Learning Tools and then selecting and ELT that already exists) or if you are using the content item selection tool, then in addition to creating the ELT(s) it will also automatically place links that use those ELTs.

OK, now at the moment the ELT is created (either manually or automatically), it might be a link to a WeBWorK assignment or it might be just a link to the WW course landing page. Let's assume it is to a specific assignment. If the WeBWorK course has grade passback set to "homework", then on top of everything else there will now be a Grade Item in the Grades tool. That Grade Item is specifically associated with the ELT that was created. So it's not possible for one Grade Item to be affected by multiple WeBWorK courses. Each Grade Item in this discussion will be associated with only one assignment from only one WeBWorK course.

So yes, you can have the one D2L course use links to multiple WeBWorK courses, and those WeBWorK courses may or may not have grade passback in effect and there won't be conflicts. Note that at any given time, the content item selection tool can only be used with one WeBWorK course. Since this tool is only used to *create* ELTs (not to actually use them), once ELTs are created you can technically change which WeBWorK course uses this D2L course's ID, and then use the content item selection tool on some other WeBWorK course.

Trying to summarize:  one D2L course associated with multiple WeBWorK courses is workable, but messy. Conversely, one WeBWorK course associated with multiple D2L courses can work fine for SSO, but as discussed earlier this would be problematic for grade passback.